She Cannot Win

As an Obama supporter, I try my very best to be objective. First, I do not excuse my candidate no matter the situation. For instance, some of the mailers sent out have been too negative and I do not condone their use. The Annie Oakley reference didn't sit well with me either. But overall, I'm satisfied with Senator Obama and his policies. He's the Junior Senator from my home state, so, I can even say that I have been satisfied with him as a public figure for quite some time.

Now onto this whole issue of who will win this nomination contest. Senator Obama should fight for it as though it's not yet his, because it isn't, but officially, the thing is over. The Clinton campaign likens this to a football game with 2 minutes to go, they say that we should let it play out. What they fail to mention is that they're down 4 touchdowns. No penalty, no safety, no fumble, or onside kick will give them a chance at the lead.

Roger Simon of Politico has an excellent article that looks at Senator Clinton's path to the nomination, or the lack there of. In discussing Senator Clinton's strategy of convincing the superdelegates that her popular vote lead legitimizes her nomination in light of losing the pledged delegate race, Mr. Simon points out:

...the people she most needs to convince that this fantasy is true are the people least likely to believe it.

Now, examine this: of the elected superdelegates who have publicly aligned themselves with a candidate thus far, and these are governors, representatives, and senators, Senator Obama leads Senator Clinton 109 to 101. Let us take a moment to examine this. This ex first-lady, wife of the last Democratic president, a popular one at that too, a 2-term Senator from New York, well-spoken, intelligent, withstood the VRWC attack, is not leading the in the vote of the elected superdelegates? Is it just me or is something severely wrong with this picture?

In an attempt to show that a superdelegate-enabled win isn't necessarily undemocratic, the Clinton campaign has made the argument that most of the superdelegates happen to be democratically elected themselves, so this isn't really that bad if they use their better judgment as the people trust them to do while they legislate. Well, there goes that argument for anyone paying attention.

Last but not least, there's Michigan, and there's Florida. Back to Roger Simon...

OK, but let's say you got the DNC members really, really drunk (not an outrageous scenario) and convinced them that the popular vote ought to count. Could you then convince them that counting Michigan and Florida makes sense?

No way. For starters, the DNC is the group that declared Michigan and Florida rogue states in the first place. Do you really think the DNC is now likely to accept the popular vote count from those states?

No, they won't. There will be some sort of compromise for the good of the party, but nothing so dramatic that it will change the face of the race. I'm all for seating FL and MI, but you have to believe that though the DNC realizes what kind of mess this has been, they also have to ensure that any resolution that is reached does not undermine the DNC's ability to reign in states in the future.

In conclusion, I ask myself, if Senator Clinton knows that she has no path to the nomination, why does she continue? Honestly, I'm stuck between "I don't know" and "she hopes Obama falls apart". And there's that devious 2012 strategy being tossed around as an explanation. I guess no one really knows. I'm sure Howard Wolfson does, but there's no point in asking him since all you get from the fellow is a response peppered with deflection.

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Poll
Who wins the nomination
Obama
Clinton
Pie

Votes: 35
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Display:


Re: She Cannot Win (2.00 / 1)

If Obama loses Indiana by 10
And barely wins NC - he will be fatally compromised.
If Obama LOSES North Carolina it's all over but the replays.
by johnnygunn on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:27:04 AM EST

Re: She Cannot Win (2.00 / 1)

Why??  She lost 12, TWELVE, contests in a row....He will still have the lead in pledged delegates, the most states won and the popular vote.

She is hoping that the remaining superdelegates are as naive as the voters who are buying her pandering of the Holiday Tax Cut, siding with the GOP candidate nonetheless...One can dream though..


Obama supporter who is damn glad Hillary Clinton is a Democrat!!
by hootie4170 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:33:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Cannot Win (2.00 / 1)

Nope.

The super delegates don't want to buy an Edsel come November.
If Obama closes out the nomination race on a big losing streak - and if he doesn't have enough pledged delegates (which he won't) - then they will not nominate him.

Period.

(Whether they go for Hillary is another story.)


by johnnygunn on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:41:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Cannot Win (none / 0)

Wake up johnny, wake up...your alarm clock is going off!!


Obama supporter who is damn glad Hillary Clinton is a Democrat!!
by hootie4170 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:43:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Cannot Win (2.00 / 1)

Oh, I get it...

For awhile, I thought delegates counted.  Then it was the big states.  Then the popular vote.  Now I finally have it clear -- it's the last states to vote that truly matter!


"I'll bite your legs off!" -- HRC 2008!
by username3 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:16:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It has always been (none / 0)

winning in November that matters. That's what the hillary hate has masked.
by linc on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:33:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Cannot Win (none / 0)

Delegates DO matter.
If you have 2025.
Short of that - it's another ballgame.
Both parties have had delegate leaders fail to win the nomination.
There's a BIG difference between having the most delegates and having a majority.
by johnnygunn on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:33:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Cannot Win (none / 0)

Right.  And I was just wondering whether the Calvinball game was scored on big states, popular vote, or late states.  Or maybe only the votes of Real Americans count.  But with a few states still to vote, perhaps it's too soon to decide which rules we want to play by.


"I'll bite your legs off!" -- HRC 2008!
by username3 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:36:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Cannot Win (none / 0)

So much disrespect for the voters who are not buying your dreams/prejudices. Yep, voters are so dumb.

Now regarding your TWELVE contests, that is past. Talk about the present because that determines the future. The euphoria is gone, the charm is gone, the gloss is gone. It happens in life. And I know it will take time for you before it sinks in.


by Sandeep on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:01:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Cannot Win (none / 0)

Your right I'd much rather be in Hillary's position than Barack's...It makes so much sense, you know the math and all...You'll have to excuse me for a bit, still trying to get used to the up is down, light is dark and first is second way of thinking...


Obama supporter who is damn glad Hillary Clinton is a Democrat!!
by hootie4170 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:07:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Cannot Win (none / 0)

You know, you're right.


by johnnygunn on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:41:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Cannot Win (none / 0)

That's called change. If up is up, light is light, then it's the same old things - status quo:-)


by Sandeep on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:29:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Cannot Win (2.00 / 5)

whenever someone tells you you can't win, it's because they're afraid you will.

but nice try.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:27:36 AM EST

Re: She Cannot Win (2.00 / 1)

Uh, no...it's called math....


Obama supporter who is damn glad Hillary Clinton is a Democrat!!
by hootie4170 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:33:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Cannot Win (1.50 / 2)


 She just puts on her big girl panties and gets the job done.
Wisdom Is The Reward For Listening Over A Lifetime
by gunner on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:34:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Cannot Win (none / 0)

What I was afraid of has been done already. But it wasn't that he'd lose.

Canadian gal, I really am at a point where no matter the outcome, I believe that my candidate put up a good fight. So, I'm satisfied. I don't care for winning at all costs. There were some missteps along the way but we cannot seriously expect perfection. In any case, losing doesn't scare me, but I don't think it'll come, and if it does, I'll just move to Canadia :)


_____________
PUMA: Perverse Undemocratic McCain Adherents
by lizardbox on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:36:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Cannot Win (2.00 / 1)

you'll love canada, we have universal healthcare!

but our politics is far less entertaining ;)


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:41:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Cannot Win (none / 0)

One of the guys that work for me is from Canada, and he says though you do have Universal care you have to wait long for procedures, scans and such. Is that true?


_____________
PUMA: Perverse Undemocratic McCain Adherents
by lizardbox on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:43:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Cannot Win (2.00 / 0)

yes its true sadly.  but i think it depends where you live too - im from a large city, so scan and other tests are faster than in other places. in canada its more preventative medicine, you know going to gp's or specialists more frequently to stymie problems before they start.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:52:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Cannot Win (2.00 / 4)

All Obama supporters say is that she can't win, then why are they so worried about Hillary? If she cannot win just kick back and relax


by rossinatl on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:32:24 AM EST

Re: She Cannot Win (none / 0)

No, we say more things actually.


_____________
PUMA: Perverse Undemocratic McCain Adherents
by lizardbox on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:37:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Cannot Win (none / 0)

Trust me, I have no doubt that BHO is the Dem nominee and if Hillary wants to continue, by all means...It's not that I'm afraid of her winning, that's a foregone conclusion,  I'm ticked at what she is doing to the party...

I would think if the GOP thought she could win they would spend a little more time bashing her, no instead they feed the propaganda at every turn touting her as a champion...When you have the likes of Hannity, O'Reilly, Dobbs, Buchanan, Hume and all the right wing pundits and blogoshere in your corner it should raise a red flag.


Obama supporter who is damn glad Hillary Clinton is a Democrat!!
by hootie4170 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:41:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Cannot Win (none / 0)

Then why come on here and post?
You should be enjoying the beautiful weather outside. Your candidate won! Right?

Yay!

Cognitive Dissonance.

.


by devoted1 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:45:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Cannot Win (none / 0)

Hey, somebody's gotta stand up to attack ads that feature Bin Laden, right?


_____________
PUMA: Perverse Undemocratic McCain Adherents
by lizardbox on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:48:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Cannot Win (2.00 / 2)

I'm doing a thesis on the Kübler-Ross model...you know the 5 stages of grief...

Denial: "She didn't lose."
Anger: "It's Obama's fault she lost!"
Bargaining: "If FL and MI counted she would have won."
Depression: "I'm done with the Democratic Party."
Acceptance: "There's always the VP slot or 2016."

Getting lots of info here....Thanks
 


Obama supporter who is damn glad Hillary Clinton is a Democrat!!
by hootie4170 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:54:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Cannot Win (none / 0)

This is a great response. I'm with you.


by AlexScott on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:11:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Cannot Win (none / 0)

Denial: "HE has already won!!!!"
Anger: "Why is the media focused on Wright and those polls?"
Bargaining: "Lets agree its the winner of the pledged delegates"
Depression: "I am not gonna vote for Hillary this sucks"
Acceptance: "Well Obama for VP isn't so bad..."

Although I think there will be more anger in there.


by DTaylor on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:34:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

each side makes the same charge (none / 0)

it goes back and forth.

Alegre had a highly recommended diary yesterday, title, "they can't wait to run against him" - implying don't vote for him, he can't win.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:15:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm very sorry (none / 0)

But I don't believe you.

Sincerely,
John


Never let the bullies win.
by SluggoJD on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:47:28 AM EST

Re: I'm very sorry (2.00 / 0)

John,

You know what you just did? You just (get ready for this) HOPED. Tell me, how does it feel?


_____________
PUMA: Perverse Undemocratic McCain Adherents
by lizardbox on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:49:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Wow (none / 0)

I don't see the magical word "hope" anywhere up there.

And I still don't believe you.


Never let the bullies win.
by SluggoJD on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:53:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm very sorry (none / 0)


Not that bright.
by killjoy on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:26:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Cannot Win (2.00 / 1)

I've seen this article diaried on a few sites today.  

Not only is the author a pretty (sub) mediocre writer, but he has a very crude grasp of the nomination rules.

Michigan and Florida have not been excluded.  Their exclusion is not mandatory; it is optional.  A hearing in May will be the first opportunity to reinstate their voices.  The Credentials Committee later in the summer will be the second.  God forbid there is a floor fight.  There are issues of abuse of discretion in stripping superdelegates from both states as well, as their source comes from a different section as the one that subjects (pledged) delegates to penalties.

He assumes Clinton is advancing the popular vote as her prime metric of persuasion; she isn't, and the Brazile herself announced electability was the main concern.  That's also Clinton's premiere argument.  More people voted for Hillary and that's just icing on the cake.  She expected to rake in some hefty numbers from the remaining nine contests as well.

LizardBox, your diary itself was much better written and prepared than this article you quoted.  Shame on politico for sanctioning a voice with such rudimentary writing and analytical skills.


2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.
by BPK80 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:05:31 AM EST

Re: She Cannot Win (none / 0)

"More people voted for Hillary and that's just icing on the cake."

That's not true; more people voted for Obama.


by DreamsOfABlueNation on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:37:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama losses NC, That's an EARTHQUAKE (2.00 / 1)

If I was in the Obama campaign team , I would be extremely concerned.

People keep forgetting that this is a
North Carolina Primary with updated rules & a changed demographic electorate.

More open primary with lots of new registered voters coming from GOP & Independent ranks.

This will be the first post-Wright National Press Club, NAACP Damage Tour & the first Post-Obama " I am outraged speech".

The way polls are looking , anything is possible

Clinton wins IN & keeps it very close in NC. That would be bad news for Obama.

But if Clinton pulls off a Huge Upset & Wins both IN & NC -  WE ARE TALKING ABOUT EARTHQUAKE PROPORTIONS HERE !

This is one scenario that  ALL TV NETWORK pundits agree on. From Russert, Matthews, Keith O, Buchanan, Maddow, Scarborough to Martin, Cooper, & Bill Schneider.

If Obama losses both IN & NC, this could literally cause a COLLAPSE of his campaign.

If he somehow losses both IN & NC, he could very likely be swept in the entire month of May & on June 1st in Puerto Rico.

You want to see a sudden Collapse in Super Delegate confidence & Poll numbers ????

That's what NC means to the Obama camp.


by labanman on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:18:40 AM EST

First sentence an apt one and Roger Simon LOL (none / 0)

When I read the first sentence, I had a laugh. And then you mentioned Roger Simon which made me laugh more. Have you been reading him lately? often? Do you know how many anti-Hillary articles he has written so far? Here is an echo chamber article for you from Roger Simon denigrating Hillary like a Obama hack will do.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/040 8/9839.html

You will enjoy it.


by Sandeep on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:19:20 AM EST

Re: First sentence an apt one and Roger Simon LOL (none / 0)

I'm glad you found my intro amusing. I (waving a water-gun) aim to please :)


_____________
PUMA: Perverse Undemocratic McCain Adherents
by lizardbox on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:27:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Officially.... (2.00 / 1)

This thing is NOT over.  Not officially.  If Obama had 2025 pledged delegates right now, it would be officially over.

Hence, officially, it's still on.  Hillary has a path to the nomination.  No wonder she's staying in.


by Montague on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:46:00 AM EST

At her inauguration (2.00 / 1)

people will say "she can't win."


by catfish1 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:09:06 AM EST

Re: At her inauguration (2.00 / 0)

No, but the headlines will read "Failed Hillary Clinton Administration to Begin at Noon Today"


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:22:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Cannot Win (none / 0)

Obama fans remember one thing that may make it more clear.

Nearly 100% of Obama's advantage comes from CAUCUSes

In the few instances when we can compare the Caucus results to what we know to be a fair metric they show a MASSIVE skew to obama relative to a 1 vote 1 person contest that doesn't filter out people who are limited on time.

Texas had a 16% shift on the SAME DAY.

Washinton state 34%

If you look at what support he likely has in the STATES HE WON its not equivalent to what he got credit for...


by DTaylor on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:38:08 AM EST

Re: She Cannot Win (none / 0)

in washington several people that I know did not vote as IT DID NOT MATTER.  I know that you all have trouble understanding that some folks do not vote when IT DOES NOT MATTER but it is try.

They went to the caucus but since the primary did not matter they did not waste their time to attend.  

Hillary was not ready to after super tuesday to play on.  That was her campign problem.


by woodinville on Thu May 01, 2008 at 06:01:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Cannot Win (none / 0)

The Obama phenomenon is over. The fizz in the air has ebbed away. You can almost sense it.


by optimisticBoy on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:40:06 AM EST

Re: She Cannot Win (none / 0)

I don't question her motives, I think she believes she can win. It's certainly possible, but not likely. I certainly wish she wouldn't use the tactics she uses but this is something we've known about the Clintons for a while. They will say and do whatever they need to in order to prevail politically and apologize later. We know this, that's what some people like about them. I don't subscribe to any ulterior motives people sometimes voice.


Proudly joining the legions of people and states that don't matter on May 20th.
by Obama Independent on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:08:58 AM EST

Re: She Cannot Win (none / 0)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I like that aspect and I know sometimes it sounds bad but I feel it is the same thing in real life.

One of the ways of winning is to make sure there is no one ahead of you. Another way is to make sure you are ahead of everyone.

Successful leaders know that it cant be either or. It is always a combination of both those approaches. Hey I feel like writing a novel on this:-)


by Sandeep on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:41:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Cannot Win (2.00 / 1)

Maybe you should. One of the great failings I've seen in the Clinton campaign in the last month or so is that when presented the option of taking the high road or digging the knife in a little deeper they go for the knife every single time, and when it's entirely unnecessary. At the last debate for instance, she could have sat back and let the moderators do their work but she couldn't resist and threw out Hamas, Farrakhan, and 9/11. During the bitter nonsense she could have stuck with the comments are wrong, don't reflect pennsylvania voters, etc. That would have been a good line for her but instead she adds in the Republican nonsense of elite, out of touch, etc.


Proudly joining the legions of people and states that don't matter on May 20th.
by Obama Independent on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:57:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Cannot Win (none / 0)

This has got to be like the 10,000th "She/He Cannot Win" diary I have seen at MyDD in the past couple of months. Either of them can still win - that is why they are both still trying to win. Get it?


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:25:42 AM EST

Re: She Cannot Win (none / 0)

The ideas espoused by this Obama diarist show exactly the arrogance that leaves the Clinton supporters shaking their heads. Somehow (to their credit) they have gotten to media to take on their position that the nomination is Obama's and that Hillary is trying to take what is rightfully his away from him. For those of you who can remember the 2000 election theft, this is precisely the strategy used by the bush team (again with the necessary complicity of the media that obviously liked one candidate more than the other).

NOBODY has the nomination until they go over the magic number at the convention in Denver. It is so lame that the supporters of a candidate with as little experience are taking this stance that he is the preseumptive nominee and everyone else should humbly bow down in his wake. Get the required number of delegates and you get the vote of any right-thinking Democrat. Until then, stop the whining and get in there and slug it out with her.

The analogy that this is a game in the last two minutes is all wrong. The proper anaolgy is that this is a game of one on one basketball and the first one to 100 wins. Right now it is about 79-73 for Obama. You don't say, "It's over because I am ahead right now. You keep playing hard and show your stuff." To offer another sporting analogy, Obama reminds me of Muhammed Ali and Clinton reminds me of Joe Frazier. He wasn't distracted by the flash of Ali. He just kept coming at him under he wore him down. Hillary is wearing him down and looking for a late round TKO.


by northstars on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:17:25 AM EST


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