Proof: If I'm a troll so is Obama (updated)

(updated) Just found out that Obama is supported a Conservative Dem over a leftwinger in Georgia. This shows that he is leading the people here rather than following. Good for him. http://www.barackobama.com/2006/06/28/call_to_renewal_keynote_address.php

I think it is fair to say that my policy ideas have been attacked here as being "republican" and that I'm really posting on the wrong site.

Yet ever since Obama defeated Hillary, he has been saying and doing things that I would agree with rather than the masses here.

When I offer proof from the news or using arguments people dismiss it one way or another.  So I decided for the first time to actually go to Obama's website and prove, Obama is either closer to me a "newliberal" who tries to do what's right on each issue than the leftwingers on these sites that love him so much.

Here's proof from barrackobama.com, Of course I'm choosing what benefits my point of view.  There is a lot there that is typical leftwing dem.  But the point is, the people there and obama himself believe it is more important to at least appear more like me than "you" at mydd. that is a good thing.  My hope is that we can keep the energy here at mydd and turn it towards making America better rather than what I think is a destructive agenda.

Imagine  if I wrote all of the following in a diary at mydd:

1.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/econom y/

"I believe that America's free market has been the engine of America's great progress. It's created a prosperity that is the envy of the world. It's led to a standard of living unmatched in history. And it has provided great rewards to the innovators and risk-takers who have made America a beacon for science, and technology, and discovery...We are all in this together. From CEOs to shareholders, from financiers to factory workers, we all have a stake in each other's success because the more Americans prosper, the more America prospers."

2.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/family #families-at-home

Barack Obama has re-introduced the Responsible Fatherhood and Healthy Families Act to remove some of the government penalties on married families, crack down on men avoiding child support payments, ensure that support payments go to families instead of state bureaucracies, fund support services for fathers and their families, and support domestic violence prevention efforts. As president, Obama will sign this bill into law and continue to implement innovative measures to strengthen families.

3.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/foreig npolicy
#onisrael

On Israel
Ensure a Strong U.S.-Israel Partnership: Barack Obama strongly supports the U.S.-Israel relationship, believes that our first and incontrovertible commitment in the Middle East must be to the security of Israel, America's strongest ally in the Middle East.

Obama supports this closeness, stating that that the United States would never distance itself from Israel.
Support Israel's Right to Self Defense: During the July 2006 Lebanon war, Barack Obama stood up strongly for Israel's right to defend itself from Hezbollah raids and rocket attacks, cosponsoring a Senate resolution against Iran and Syria's involvement in the war, and insisting that Israel should not be pressured into a ceasefire that did not deal with the threat of Hezbollah missiles. He believes strongly in Israel's right to protect its citizens.

Support Foreign Assistance to Israel: Barack Obama has consistently supported foreign assistance to Israel. He defends and supports the annual foreign aid package that involves both military and economic assistance to Israel and has advocated increased foreign aid budgets to ensure that these funding priorities are met. He has called for continuing U.S. cooperation with Israel in the development of missile defense systems.

4. Nothing on LGBT "issues"

Also note:

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/civilr ights/#strengthen-enforcement

nothing on LGBT "issues" on his site that I can find except 3 lines about expanding hate crimes legislation by passing the Matthew Shepard Act.  But you would have to know that means including sexual orientation  in the "protected groups".

This is so moderate, I agree with it.

5.  
http://www.barackobama.com/2006/06/28/ca ll_to_renewal_keynote_address.php

But what I am suggesting is this - secularists are wrong when they ask believers to leave their religion at the door before entering into the public square. Frederick Douglas, Abraham Lincoln, Williams Jennings Bryant, Dorothy Day, Martin Luther King - indeed, the majority of great reformers in American history - were not only motivated by faith, but repeatedly used religious language to argue for their cause. So to say that men and women should not inject their "personal morality" into public policy debates is a practical absurdity. Our law is by definition a codification of morality, much of it grounded in the Judeo-Christian tradition.

Not every mention of God in public is a breach to the wall of separation - context matters. It is doubtful that children reciting the Pledge of Allegiance feel oppressed or brainwashed as a consequence of muttering the phrase "under God." I didn't. Having voluntary student prayer groups use school property to meet should not be a threat, any more than its use by the High School Republicans should threaten Democrats. And one can envision certain faith-based programs - targeting ex-offenders or substance abusers - that offer a uniquely powerful way of solving problems.

------

Before someone asks, the point of the diary is to show that our candidate is a mainstream democrat who is at least presenting himself as closer to my views than the "netroots", and I hope people here stop attacking "trolls"  unless they are going to attack our own candidate.  

Also, if Obama keeps this up he will win in a LANDSLIDE.

If he runs as the candidate people here at mydd want, he will lose in a squeaker.



Display:


Re: Proof: If I'm a troll so is Obama (2.00 / 1)

I think we should all agree to stop using the word "troll" for about a week.  We'll all feel a lot better and the quality of the discussions will improve around here, I believe.

I called someone a troll once and immediately regretted it.  It's such a lazy way out of a conversation.


by the mollusk on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:05:15 PM EST

Re: Proof: If I'm a troll so is Obama (2.00 / 1)

i agree. i want more discussion on the greatest of America and how we can make it better.

I find it interesting and a pleasant surprise of how obama is not so radical and for "change" in the sense that people project on him.

It is much easier to support the gen. election obama than the primary obama who supporters built up so large.


by yellowdem1129 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:09:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Proof: If I'm a troll so is Obama (1.50 / 2)

mojo to ya and rec. and I'm off to mojo all you past comments that I appreciate and for all the TR's you got. I should  find about 20-25 comments I would enjoy to to mojo you :)


Rise / Repeat / But for god's sake don't spin!
by aliveandkickin on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:15:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Proof: If I'm a troll so is Obama (2.00 / 1)

Attitudes like that are turning MYDD into a playground.

Rec and rate because you BELIEVE in an argument, not just because you've found a best buddy to go cruising around with looking for a fight. That's pathetic.

And the kind of behavior that definitely incurs the T word.


Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain
by duende on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:20:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Proof: If I'm a troll so is Obama (1.50 / 2)

ahh I feel your pain...pain that we never saw for the 200 " you are troll" comments we see in a week here. pain that comes out now because of me mojo'ing  all those you hate for dissent...


Rise / Repeat / But for god's sake don't spin!
by aliveandkickin on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:25:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Proof: If I'm a troll so is Obama (2.00 / 2)

No pain. No irritation even. Your posts have no content, and merely seek to annoy. Good luck to you if you get your rocks off that way. Personally, I'd recommend some therapy.


Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain
by duende on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:27:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Proof: If I'm a troll so is Obama (1.50 / 2)

ahh so irritation, none on your end for those 200 your a troll content.  I get it...crystal clear.


Rise / Repeat / But for god's sake don't spin!
by aliveandkickin on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:33:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Crystal clear? (1.75 / 4)

Unlike your comment which is incoherent babble.


Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain
by duende on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:49:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Proof: If I'm a troll so is Obama (2.00 / 2)

Wow.  I thought you were amazing simply for all the time you spend here pushing Republican orthodoxy - now this?

It's your life man.


We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.
by Jess81 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 01:58:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Proof: If I'm a troll so is Obama (2.00 / 1)

Yeah, he did loom pretty large there for a while.

At risk of being called a troll myself, I think that Obama is transformational precisely because he doesn't follow the 1999-2007 (losing) Democratic playbook.  For example, being somewhat ambivalent on gay rights is maybe not the worst thing.  I know that the issue needs to be pressed, but I suspect that the next generation of voters - those that are under 30 today, have already moved past things like gender, sexual orientation and racial stereotypes.  I fear that the class stereotypes may be as strong as ever.

Obama can also get away with things that other candidates cannot.  For example, speaking at a Black Church in Chicago a few weeks ago, he made reference to the poor parenting skills among low income African Americans.  He said something like "You can't give your kids cold Popeye's for breakfast and expect them to do well in school."  A white candidate just can't say this, but it is true.


by the mollusk on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:18:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Proof: If I'm a troll so is Obama (2.00 / 3)

Only a troll would think Obama is a troll.  You aren't fooling anyone.


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:25:26 PM EST

Re: Proof: If I'm a troll so is Obama (none / 0)

I don't agree with your conclusions, but I like the way in which you have presented your arguments, a stark difference from diaries I have seen you post in the past.

I am recommending your diary, in part because I like the type of discussion that a well thought-out diary brings to the table...even if...again...I don't agree with your conclusions. : )


by NYMinute on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:25:31 PM EST

rec'd for honesty (none / 0)

in re:

Of course I'm choosing what benefits my point of view.  There is a lot there that is typical leftwing dem

And I actually agree that if he ran on a dailyKos platform, he'd do as well as a black John Edwards with a Muslim name. I picked him because I thought he could win, and part of that calculation involves convincing very NON left-wing people to vote for you.


by Neef on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:38:28 PM EST

Re: rec'd for honesty (none / 0)

True. The rabid RW paints him as scary enough.
He does have to convince those in the middle to vote for him.

Nice diary.


by Mae Scott on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 04:50:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Proof: If I'm a troll so is Obama (2.00 / 4)

The quotes you have chosen support your contention. However, I could just as easily find evidence on McCain's web site that paints him as a flaming liberal. A few sentences are not a definitive view of the candidate's stance.

For instance, in number 1 you quote Obama's support for the free market, but you don't mention his beliefs that regulation is needed for that free market to keep it from being unfair. You don't mention his support for more control of credit card companies, unfair CEO compensation, reform of the bankruptcy laws, etc... Your point would have been much weaker if you had mentioned those.

Number 2) I definitely agree with his stance here. I don't see how this makes him more of a right-of-center Dem.

Number 3) Is there a national politician in this country that does not support Israel? None I've heard of, anyway.

Number 4) He has a page for LGBT under 'People'. I guess you missed that. Hope it doesn't upset you.

Number 5)This is one issue where I have problems with Obama's stance. They are minor differences, so it isn't a big issue with me. Even on this, he follows his stated policy of reaching out to all Americans. If you read his whole speech you might not be so glad about his stance on religion in public life.

Moreover, given the increasing diversity of America's population, the dangers of sectarianism have never been greater. Whatever we once were, we are no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers.

This brings me to my second point. Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific, values. It requires that their proposals be subject to argument, and amenable to reason. I may be opposed to abortion for religious reasons, but if I seek to pass a law banning the practice, I cannot simply point to the teachings of my church or evoke God's will. I have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths, including those with no faith at all.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:38:39 PM EST

To be fair (none / 0)

Most of the Right would call McCain a flaming liberal.

No, really. They hate him.


by Neef on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:41:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To be fair (none / 0)

Good point. Isn't it interesting that on the right-wing sites they are trying to paint Barack as a flaming liberal, "the most liberal Senator" and here on a Democratic site we have posters like Jacob trying to paint him as more to the right?


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:46:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Proof: If I'm a troll so is Obama (2.00 / 3)

None of the quotes you pulled are offensive in the least even to the most die-hard of left-wingers as long as those die-hard left-wingers understand and appreciate nuance.

BTW, LGBT issues:

Fact sheet
HRC questionnaire

It's listed under "people" rather than "issues" because LGBT people aren't an "issue."  They are people for whom many issues are important.

He'd originally had "women" listed only in the "people" section as well, but there was a great and collective hyperventilation (Barack Obama doesn't care about women!) so they tossed up a page on the issues list.


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:41:37 PM EST

some truth to this diary (2.00 / 1)

many of us lefties find obama's positions merely acceptable but still heads and shoulders above all the other "viable" candidates. to us, the whole cultist/koolaid bullshit that ensued was particularly offensive.

regarding your #1, lets not forget the free market brought us the deregualtion that has all but crushed discourse in the media through consolidation; enron and the faux calif. energy crisis, the savings and loans scandel, the mortgage crisis, and the current oil speculation.


by citizendave on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:51:29 PM EST

Re: Proof: If I'm a troll so is Obama (2.00 / 2)

Oddly, I don't think too many people on this site think exactly the same and as far as I can tell, we aren't all a bunch of neo-marxists or whatever it is you think we are.  In fact there has been so much shenanigans lately that I can barely remember from anyone's point of view, except that we all apprecaite Civil Liberties and dislike FISA retroactive immunity.
Point being, I think if you had been railed as a troll before it was more in your delivery, but some of your more centrists comments may have been just latched on to deliver the troll handle.

Interstingly I see that for some reason even though you think Obama is more of a centrist like you, you still rail on him by making comments that "see he isn't really about change it was an act." in other words, he is a phony and we are all idiots.  THat's what people don't like from you.  

I personally agree with most of the Obama positions you posted, does that mean I cannot believe in change?  No, I think more transparency in how our government is run, a government that abides by the rule of law and is not seduced by special interest is the real message of change.    

 


Democrat for the democratic nominee
by KLRinLA on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:52:55 PM EST

Re: Proof: If I'm a troll so is Obama (2.00 / 1)

First, I don't think you are a troll.

Second, I prefer more secularist candidates. But I agree the political climate in this country today makes it impossible for a non-religious person to win the White House.

Third, the talk about supporting married couples and Israel is a necessity to win the White House. However, I don't completely agree with this tone.

Yes, we should support Isreal, but not at the expense of the Palestinians.

I personally think we've gone too far in supporting married couples over single people. For example, ending the marriage tax penalty to most people does seem fair. However, most people do not realize that the once apparent "Marriage Penalty" was created by reducing tax rates on widows of veterans on the realization that single people face higher per capita living expenses than married couples (For example, you save money by sharing bedrooms).

In reality, on average single people are poorer than married couples. Thus, it seems to me that single people need more help than married couples.


Dizzy Zzyzzy
by Zzyzzy on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:57:04 PM EST

Selective excerpting is misleading (2.00 / 4)

Sure, John McCain is a lying shitweasel; but Obama always referes to his honorable service to our country before chopping him down.  If you only excerpt the first part, you'd think Obama was a McCain supporter.

No, sorry; but selective excerpting is invalid.  Platforms and essays, especially on campaign websites, are written as complete thoughts.  Obama does not communicate in soundbites, he communicates in whole essays; and the entirety of his message is not found a few sentences taken from the whole.


Nos causidicus Obama , ergo nos non suadeo
by rb608 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 01:10:13 PM EST

Recced for Moderatishnessism (none / 0)

As I have said (and my profile reflects) my views are "Upper Left Purple" according to politicalcompass.com, and "right of center" in the more simplistic linear model (but I also identify with at least the term Progressive as well, just to muddy the waters further... ;-).

I like the fact that Sen. Obama is a Pragmatist, above all else, and that he holds the same core Liberal ideals I grew up with.  He's just more evolved in his focus than those who identify with "Far Left" ideals (such as our token Socialist supporter here), and while that may offend some who hold certain views, it is very appealing to the wide Middle in our country.  He will no doubt get more done to advance Left issues than someone further to the Left, since imho the latter would produce more heat than motion.

Recced.

-chris


"A ship in port is safe, but that is not what ships are for. Sail out to sea and do new things." Admiral Grace Hopper, computer pioneer
by chrisblask on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 01:30:04 PM EST

Re: Proof: If I'm a troll so is Obama (2.00 / 1)

Obama is a troll, so you are one too.  I have it on deep, deep background that Obama has been trolling MyDD for years under the handle "engels."  He continues even now during this pitch general election battle.


I like baked beans.
by SpideyDem on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 01:45:23 PM EST

*Jaw drops* (none / 0)

So you're on board, then? Wow. I seriously thought you'd be the first guy on the PUMA train.

If you're in fact supporting Obama now, whatever the reasons (so long as they are sincere and positive), then I personally apologize for having thought ill of you.

That said, don't expect Obama (or me) to back you on education vouchers. I'm not trying to pick a fight, just being clear.


Visit Election Inspection for analysis, polls, and predictions!
by X Stryker on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 02:56:34 PM EST

Re: *Jaw drops* (none / 0)

I'm a yellow dog. But I won't stop trying to make our party better and the country stronger.

I'm trying to publicize the good aspects of Obama and to my surprise there's much more to work with.

You'd never know based on these primaries.

My goal is to change these internet web sites towards the way Obama is and not the reverse.


by yellowdem1129 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 05:24:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: *Jaw drops* (none / 0)

If you're trying to move MyDD (and its brethren) from Progressive to Centrist, that's pretty unlikely. But I agree with your point - civil debate on the issues ought to be welcome here, as long as we aren't using GOP framing.

Personally, I support Obama's efforts to appeal to religious voters who are concerned about poverty, health care, and Global Warming. And even though I don't exactly agree with his positions on Handguns and the Death Penalty, or his support of Civil Unions instead of full Gay Marriage, I do support his positions politically as "about as progressive as we can manage successfully" for the current decade. Much like my position on pot - I think it should be sold legally, but I'll support anyone who at least supports medicinal marijuana even if they oppose decriminalization.

These are all issues, of course, where there was basically no difference between Barack and Hillary.


Visit Election Inspection for analysis, polls, and predictions!
by X Stryker on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 12:59:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The problem is you haven't read further (none / 0)

than your own quote.  His concept is to put out a unifying bipartisan quote and then adding a very liberal Democratic position to back it up.  He's trying to get Independents and Republicans without pandering to them.  


by Tenafly Viper on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 03:44:01 PM EST

Re: Proof: If I'm a troll so is Obama (2.00 / 1)

1. Everyone believes in a free & fair marketplace.  

  1. Father's should pay child support.  Who is against that, except for the deadbeat dads?  Against domestic violence, omg I can't support him now!  Liberals love to see families abused.
  2. Israel, standard position.  He's tried to show some nuance, then gone farther on certain issues.  I support aid to Israel, does that mean I have to hand in my progressive card?
  3. Others have already stated your wrong about LGBT, its under the people section.  Nice try.
  4.  I'd prefer a more secular America, but it ain't gonna happen, and I'm glad to see him not conceding to the Republicans on this issue.  Not all people of faith are like James Dobson, thank God!

I would argue with you that the entire Democratic party has moved partly leftward.  But yes, Obama isn't Dennis Kucinich.  So your main goal is to convince people on here that Obama isn't as good as they want him to be?  Obama is our candidate, but the netroots will remian with or without him, advocating progressive positions.  He is not the be-all and end-all.  But he's pretty damn good.  Its kind of funny really.  It's like your growing to become an ardent Obama supporter, but to cement your support even more, you need others not support him as much.  You're like the older kid lying to a youngin about a candy bar not tasting good because they want it for themselves.  


by cycl06 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 03:46:13 PM EST

you've got to kidding (none / 0)

Try writing about the virtues of the free market on any issue here at mydd and you get carpetbombed.


by yellowdem1129 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 05:22:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Proof: If I'm a troll so is Obama (2.00 / 1)

The arrogance of your title says it all..
I agree you may not be a troll in relationship to the drive by posters....
However,;
your diaries and comments represent a sequential string of purposely creating agitation with nothing meaningful to support it..
tap yer toes YD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfbKIOexL Dc&feature=related

"harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy"
by nogo postal on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 03:58:35 PM EST

Re: Proof: If I'm a troll so is Obama (none / 0)

Just found this out:

Obama backed a conservative Dem over a leftwinger:

http://www.barackobama.com/2006/06/28/ca ll_to_renewal_keynote_address.php

My point is to say, if Obama is better than I thought, and not the person I was so against in the Primaries.


by yellowdem1129 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 05:18:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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